[WongaNS] played latley a lot of pcws and you know what they where most likley all boring
because as you can see here:
29.07.2013 VS - Virtual Selection Div 3 S2 3:3 6 alien wins
28.07.2013 [TWAT] - Teamwork and Tactics Div2 S2 2:2 4 alien wins
25.07.2013 is Radical2 - is Radical2 Div3 S2 2:2 4 alien wins
24.07.2013 Packet Loss - Packet Loss Div2-3 S2 2:2 4 alien wins
23.07.2013 |el'pheer| - el'pheer Div3 S2 2:2 4 alien wins
22.07.2013 VS - Virtual Selection Div3 S2 2:2 4 alien wins
21.07.2013 [TWAT] - Teamwork and Tactics Div2 S2 1:1 2 alien wins
most likeley every game gets won by Aliens there is nearlly nothing you can do.
Here a list of reasons why i think that is allways the case:
-Aliens come allways in packs of 3-4 players most likeley with babblers and a gorge on engangments
(you need awesome good marines to kill them in that case)
Marines will most likley dont survive that and lose the RT they tryed to build.
-The Fade explosion brings 4 Fades assulting the Phase Gate/s when Marines barley have Armor1 and Shotguns
no matter how good you are when 4 Fades use awesome Teamplay the Marines will lose the PG or the Aliens will meanwhile capture the whole map
-Marines haveing an hard time unless you have awesome teamplay and mad skills to have any chance vs decent aliens
Im not sure if its just our "strong" Alien play and our "bad" Marine play or if its also the case when these teams play each other.
but still its SUPER BORING to even play when you know 3-4 alienplayers will kill the cappers and fadeexplosion will win the game no matter what you do.
it started with build 250 to be like that and now with build 251 "it feels like"(not sure about that) its even more the case.
i hope the upcoming balance changes will fix this otherwise people will just get demotivated and stop playing.
There are ways to adapt your marine and win. Marines needs to play so much more careful and postitioning is like 90% which alot of teams don't realize. However I agree that it's more in aliens favour for competetive. You should post this on the UWE Forum for sewlek to read.
I do agree with mega that the alien side is strong at the moment. This has games with strong marine play to end up in boring and simular endgame games where too much 'randomness' is used.
Big pile of ARC's, turrets, whips, crags, shifts, etc. in a stalemate fight for some location.
Boringsness, agreed, but what to do with it?
Piling on the stuff commanders can drop with 'unlimited' resources, removing control from the players to control in objects that clutter the game.
Maybe the res system should be changed to give less res with the more upgrades you get? Upkeep costs for buildings?.. Just emptying my thoughts here.
Upkeep costs seem like a reasonable solution. You can't pile on too many ARCs before you push in.. it will hurt your economy. Same for aliens dropping stuff everywhere because they can.
Maybe cooldown for rebuying stuff? If you lose your jp, 2 min cooldown to use another. This way kills actually matter, instead of repeatedly pressuring with same equipment. Same goes for aliens with redrops of lifeforms.
I'm pretty happy with my randomness so far.. upkeep and cooldown. Any thoughts?
just this... remember good old broodwar?
when everybody was using this imba strat and suddenly someone figured out how to counter it and the coin flipped again?
happens all the time without balance changes... people are crazy beings, arent they :P?
Alien is easier because marine play is more complex. Alien is easy : drop rts, go fade, GG. Put an hive somewhere in between.
Marines requires more brain, more experience. It's about knowing when to push, where to push, when to go back. And positionning in teamfight. And the build order impacts more. You need to know when fades are coming and get PGs before that.
Also, aim.
It's all harder than alien.
I agree with the posters who are saying that there's a difference between top, mid and low level teams with regards to how successful they are at playing marines versus aliens, but it is also in my experience true that the alien side is slightly stronger. Archaea had the strongest marine round of any team since the late beta, but we still have more rounds lost as marines than aliens.
It's not a good state for the game to be in at all and I think the balance definitely needs to change. Nerf aliens or buff marines, basically.
I'm very eager to see what's going to happen with the community this month. In the past, when we played ns1, things always started picking up in august, after the summer inactivity. I've sort of just expected that the same would happen now, but after looking at the sign up list for the summer cup, I'm not so sure anymore. That's a really depressingly short list. Disastrously short.
Big fish in a small pond killing comp game.Maybe if one player from each top team had the inclination to start a new team we'd have a nice vibrant comp scene, alas no.Natural selection is quite ironic in this case I feel.
If anything needs to be done it's mentoring ,training or some kind of community investment in teaching things like positioning or maybe more pugs and pug cups for newbies and teamless,thus helping to generate more teams.
Atm feels like it's an old boys club with the top two / three / four teams basically impossible to beat because of the pool of xp concentrated in one place and as much as the next four or five teams below them try they will never compete.I've never seen a game with so many also ran teams who only gain respect by pulling off one off crazy stuff ,rather than the clinical decision making of the top guys.
Maybe its a case of div2/3 teams being better organised,better drilled,cleverer and quicke.r it's up to team and clan leaders to make that happen rather than praying for some kind of balance gift which could change everything and guess what it won't be the div 3.teams at the top of the adjustment curve;)
even the summer in Beta NS2 was more active then this summer.
I think its mostly the frustrating balance of the game, like you already said.
The balance mod had promising changes in it, but failt to hotfix the issues in gameplay which showed up after playing it a bit more. You have to play a nearly perfect marin round to win, as aliens you are able to comeback even from lossing 4 fades.
Funny thing is that many player said it before the balance patch came out that it will don't work so good like it could be. Many players get hated for that. Best part was in one Mix team: "Before 250 you getting fast cara and rts hold it and then fade explosion and gg. Now you getting... wtf!"
Yes the game changed but c'mon, the game after 250 is the same game before.
Remember this is for low / mid teams and yes you can say aim your noobs but if you say it everytime pls stop crying because teams are dying or not reaching a higher lvl and skill. If you want this ok make 2 Cups everytime, let the noobs (maybe 30 at the moment) and the imba teams (maybe 6?) for his own. There is a big difference from mid to high!
king_yo is the first top gamer that said ok for the low/mid game the game is nearly broken for the marines. Not this stupid answers like you need to aim noobs or change tactics noobs! And now you getting this short signup list and say why? But hey, it will be a good final again after the London final. Maybe the revenge...
Good point... Some top gamers can do marine and alien training courses for new players like positioning, aiming, basic tactics, etc... UWE can announce that... Maybe advanced training for div2/3 players... This can help the competitive community growth.
I can't begin to fathom what you mean Fana. I'm offering a public service here!
Kella, you'll be pleased to hear that I've managed to complete the narration and even add subtitles in your native language! Further tutorials on more complicated room entry are forthcoming.
i don't think we have even seen how truly OP aliens can really be, simply because alien play has not been optimized to anywhere near the same extent as has been done with marines.
also, the alien imba is not contained to low or mid tier games, top tier games go pretty much the same way - though they might have a slightly better chance of hanging on for an hour and hoping the aliens get bored...
if the broadest base of competitive NS2 is not having a good time, its almost certain that the top will die off pretty quickly afterwards so I suggest people come up with solutions and fast, or else it will be too late.
I wouldn't be against increasing the gather size to 8 per team and seeing whether that produces more varied results for instance. it wouldnt be perfect, but i don't think there is time to be trying to do months of testing of gameplay ideas etc.
hm that just delays fadeplosion i wouldnt take the risk to get one fade up to see him die before second comes up or actually before third fade comes up
hm that would just delay fadeplosion... at least for me since i wouldnt let one fade come up just to die before the second comes up maybe even wait for third... on the other hand this little bit of more time might be enough for marines to be prepared for fades :3
nah... fadeplosion is too strong yes... but 4 fades vs 4 sg marines that can actually aim is reeeaaallly hard to win as fades and if u lose one fade u cant pick it back up, its just that losing a fade has too big an impact to actually make fades any weaker and as long onos is useless u cant really make fades any weaker since fades are the only chance to win the game except for bilebomb rush (in case the teams are equally strong)
and well with upgrades and buildings costing so much alrdy and restricted by the 200 limit its not like u can drop however much you want
arj - im not sure the res model is really that uneven anymore (though i think alien harvesters are far too cheap, or marine ones too expensive) - its simply that aliens are able to get pretty much as much tech as they need within 8-11 minutes or so, whereas it takes marines much much longer to get on the same level...
Smaragor - who wins the fight really isn't the point - because if your engaging 4 marines with shotguns your just doing it wrong. If there are 4 marines in an area the 4 fades hit somewhere else - and unless marines have PGs (which means less upgrades) then fades will just beat them to every location they want to.
well imagine marines have only their base left :OOOOOO they are on 3/3 have 3 ips and sentrys and shotguns and well u are not gonna get them down... u actually have to let them get out cuz when they are inside u are not gonna take it, if they get 1pg base 1pg somewhere else they can hold those 2 easily with a 2/3 split just by staying close to the pg so they can phase immediately and just by expanding slowly back with 1 pg they can get back a lot of map control and your fades are alrdy maxed and u cant take them and by losing a fade or 2 in those engagements u just give them more time to expand of course u can replace those fades but it takes time they can still get back.
while aliens on 1 hive marines have all map... they are f*cked so yeah u shouldnt engage them but u make them weaker u´ll never finish as aliens unless u cheese...
this is not only about the early game if u make fades weaker without any other changes to maybe the other lifeforms it just gets easier for marines to turtle and winning those games in the long run
